Chapter 4, "A Million Porcupines Crying in the Dark"
Please respond to one or more of the following prompts in 2-3 paragraphs.
- Where does the title for this chapter come from, and what does it mean?
- Why does King tell the tragic story of his good friend Louis Owens?
- In this chapter, King has a lot to say about important themes and motifs found in books by contemporary Native writers. List two or three of them.
- What is a "saving story"? Describe what King means by this phrase as fully as possible
Afterwards, please comment on two of your peers' responses.
I am responding to question number four. A saving story is a story that you can tell yourself, friends or a complete stranger. A saving story is also a story that can make you laugh and cry. A saving story is a particular kind of story that keeps you alive. It's memories or a story that could cheer you up or make you sad. It's a story that you want people to know.
ReplyDeleteA saving story has advice in it to keep you alive. You love telling saving stories and would tell them to anybody, and everybody if you could. A saving story has different effects on different people.
DeleteI think saving stories have such a broad deffinition, and that theyre so many different things to somebody. But i think your definition is spot on.
DeleteI agree with Rachael, saving stories can reach a variety, but this definition is good.
DeleteI agree with Sasha, that was one main thing you left out Shelly. The advice about keeping alive part.
Delete(#1) This chapter is titled, "A Million Porcupines Crying in the Dark", because of a part in Robert Alexie's novel, Porcupines and China Dolls. In Alexie's novel, James Nathan and Jake Noland return from Aberdeen residential school, where the girls were made to look like porcupines, hence the title of the novel. Each night, the children cried in their beds, which made a sound like "a million porcupines crying in the dark." This was the part where King got the title for this chapter. Also, it is a "story of a journey from the dark side of reality...a story of pain and healing, of making amends and finding truth, of the inability of a people to hold on to their way of life." This to King sounds like the Indians he knows.
ReplyDeleteFor James and Jake in Alexie's novel, their return involves simply a sorting out, an ordering of relationships, memories, and possibilities, an attempt to find a future. Non-Native readers will probably tire of hearing the sound of "a million porcupines crying in the dark", and cringe at the mantra of people growing ten, then twenty, then thirty and forty feet tall with pride as they "disclose" the sexual abuse they suffered at residential school or the relentless cycle of attempts and failures as characters try to put their lives together. Unfortunately, in the end, James put the barrel of a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. "In the novel, as in life, whether he lives or dies depends on which story he believes."
The boys are the ones who were "scrubbed and sheered" to look like porcupines. I like your ideas but I believe they could be explained in greater depth because you say their is a connection but you don't really explain it.
DeleteI think your points in the first paragraph are good, but not fully developed. As Sawyer said, there is an error or two which anyone could make. I'm not sure I see the relevance of the final paragraph though. It is primarily un-explicated quotes, but, moreover, they don't particularly pertain to the question at hand. I hate to sound so mean and negative, because I feel like you were really going somewhere good with this, I just believe perhaps there is a little more depth to the reasoning.
DeleteKing tells the story of Louis Owens because they both had almost the same exact interests. Louis was a good friend to king, close enough to even be a brother to king. They enjoyed fly fishing and story telling together. They were both "hopeful pessimists" They wrote knowing that their stories wouldn't change the world but they were hopeful that someday they might. King tells about Louis's memoir because maybe that is what Louis was pondering about when he committed suicide.
ReplyDeleteLouis was trying to find a way to be accepted by writing down stories of events that had effected him. When Louis writes about picking tomatoes and thinking that he is finally going to get somewhere in life, he realizes that the government is actually not giving him anything. He discovers that he is actually living the life of a slave. He works with no pay, also any self esteem that he had is broken down. He finally comes to reality and and realizes that he will never be accepted no matter what attempts he makes. King feels the same way as Louis but keeps trying to improve in any way possible. Kings mother believed that integrity and self confidence will allow one to discover success. King tells the story of Louis Owens s not to complain about the life of Indians, but to show how Indian life was like.
At the time, I believe Indians were like slaves in a way. They were separated from others, and not acknowledged. Louis had a rough life just like King did, and I think that's the reason why they got along so well because they were alike. But yes I agree because King tries to improve and make it in the society at the time.
DeleteI agree with the both of you. Louis was treated like a slave, not earning enough money to take care of himself. King's life was rough too, just not nearly in the same way.
Deletethe indians and Louis were both treated like slaves in different ways and similar ways
DeleteI completely agree with what all of you are saying.
DeleteI agree about part of the reason being they had they same interests in stories.
Delete#2 -
ReplyDeleteKing tells us about the story of Louis Owens because he saw him as close friend, just like a brother. The two would go fly fishing, tell stories, and enjoy quiet solitified places. They both considered themselves "hopeful pessimists" because they knew that no story they told would change the world. However, they wrote as if they could change the world.
King begins to tell Louis' memoir. King believes that this story is what Louis was thinking of when he committed suicide. Louis wrote about he was picking tomatoes one day and he feels like he is accomplishing something with his life. Louis comes to the conclusion that the government is not giving him anything, and that he is spending more than he is earning. He loses all confidence and realizes he will never be accepted. In the airport garage, King believed that Louis retold his memoir in his head and it lead him to committing suicide. The point of telling this story was to show Indian life.
I also believe that he was showing that he did accomplish something in his life even though he did become an author
DeleteHe did accomplish becoming an author to show that he could make something of himself and prove the government wrong.
Deleteking shows how mentally strong he is because he was going through the same type of events that Owens was experiencing. he never quit
Delete#2
ReplyDeleteKing tells the story of his friend Louis because he was very close to him, like family. Louis had the same fears as King did growing up, had same fears, had the same interests as King like fly fishing and apparently story telling.
King tells Louis's memoir because he would like to think that was his final thoughts. Louis wrote about his days when he went tomatoe picking because he wanted to show he did accomplish something in his life. After finding out that he was growing broke because of the government and loses all hope.
Owens was in fact a slave that is why he was felt like he was being treated poorly
DeleteI agree Andrew, Owen was was a slave and was treated poorly by the government.
DeleteGovernment treated Owens very poor.
Deletequestion 2
ReplyDeleteThomas King talks about a tragic story of his friend Louis killing himself in his (Kings) book The Truth About Stories. He tells this story to show us how the same story, if told different ways has different affects. As he says “we both knew that stories were medicine, that a story told one way could cure, that the same story told another way could injure.”92. When he tells Louis’s story of working at a camp or “government program” for people making low income could work in the fields of California picking tomatoes (as is what Louis did) and make at least minimum wage. The story goes on and tells about how this white mobbed formed and headed out for the camp (which was an ex-army barracks). They didn’t reach the barracks but they did set some nearby cars on fire and got their anger out. And from there on the government didn’t make any more of those camps. When the government abounded the camp they didn’t bother bringing the workers home. Louis witnessed many people he had worked with walking back home, and many had a pretty far walk ahead of them.
Kings point here is that you could look at this story in two different ways; you could see it as a survivor story or as a story of seeing a lot of poor (money wise) people walk home with probably nothing but their cloths on the backs and essentially no money. Seeing this as a survivor’s story, looking back at what the camp had become and just bear ally dodging the white mob is probably easier than thinking of it as a sad story. King thinks that this is the story that Louis looked back on just before he killed himself. He looked more towards the negatives then the positives of the story. But no one could know what Louis was going through at that moment.
I agree Alex, well said. This helped me understand this part more.
DeleteThere are definitely a few different themes that contemporary Native writers use. One constant theme is placing their fictions in the present. The past is an unusable setting because it implies that that's all they are and that's all they'll ever have. We're not in the American Romantic period anymore and we're not looking for that dying Native anymore we want stories of hope.
ReplyDeleteA second major motif is imagining the world in a different way and suggesting that we not depend so much on opposition but more on cooperation. What they mean by this is that our usual approach to evil is to try and destroy it which is a futile approach, even foolish. They raise the question of what else we can do in the face of evil.
I focused more on the other questions, so I didn't pay much attention to the the themes and motifs. I like the ones you chose though, they are clear and well thought through. I probably never would have through of them myself. They are really good.
DeleteI never really thought of any themes....
DeleteThere are a couple reasons why I think King told the story of Louis in his book. One reason I think he told the story was because he wanted to have Louis remembered as a good person. The reason behind this is that not only did King talk about the suicide, but he explained that Louis and him were close, almost "brothers" as he put it. So by explaining how close they were and how they had some of the same interests, such as fly fishing and the like of the solitude in quiet places, King wanted to let his readers know that Louis was a good person.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason I think King told this story was also to get a little sympathy. The reason for this is because, as said before, King explained how close they were. He probably figured that anyone reading the book would know that the lose of a close friend could be extremely devastating. So he used that in the book.
Nice man, i completely agree with what you said.
Delete#4
ReplyDeleteAccording to King, a "Saving Story" is a story that you can tell anybody, it could be your parents, your siblings, it could even be to a total stranger. A "Saving Story doesn't even have to be a happy one. They can make you cry, make you laugh, or even make you get angry. You could even just forget about it. You don't generally have to even pay attention to them. Just remember, these are the stories that give us life.
I think there is more to the saving stories. it is a story that you look into the optimistic side of a pessimistic story. King has described himself as an optimistic pessimist, he does in the beginning of this chapter in the style he writes. So these stories are all pessimistic stories but he looked from the optimistic side. These stories make him look at the brighter side of life while so many terrible things are happening around him.
Deletei agree with sawyer but good paragraph
DeleteI think both Brandon and Sawyer had it right on.
Delete#4). A "saving story" is simply a story that helps give someone the enjoyment of life. It can make you laugh, cry, smile, or even frown. Either way, it's a way that helps a person stay alive. Stories are medicince just like laughter.
ReplyDeleteA story can have different affects on everyone. To one person, it might mean the world, and to another it could mean completley nothing to them. It is how the story is told, that makes it interesting to hear.
Can a saving story be a lie? If it makes a difference in emotion that could somehow change the effects of something happening would that be the ultimate saving story?
DeleteI agree Emily
DeleteGood question Mike.
DeleteKing tells the tragic story of his good friend Louis, for a couple of reasons. One reasons is help keep the memory of a lost friend and a good writer. King tells the final story of Owens, beacuse without storys we would never exsist.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason King tells the Tragic story of his friend to show how a story can change, for better or worse. The story is made to look like one of dissapointment not one of racial injustece wich it really is. King talks about how storys can be a medicine or the injury, If Owens ended the story with the mob leaving it would be just a raisist story but since it ended with "Where are those fellows today, the ones i picked tomatoes and played basketball a mob with." This turns the story into a foggy memory one that was suppose to help get money for the inercity kids there but it was just disapointment.
The final reason that King put Owens story in "The Truth about Storys" is beacuse it help prove the message he was trying to get across.
Kings tells us about his friend Louis Owens because he thought that we should know that people should know about this good writer who was also his good friend. He also wanted us to know that Louis was a good man even though he had to go through tough times in the fields. King wanted to let us know that it's these types of stories that have an effect on people. Obviously it had a big enough effect on King for him to have put it in his book for all of us to be able to hear about. King also told us this because the thoughts running through his friends mind might have been those in his memoir. These thoughts might have been going through his mind when he was contemplating committing suicide, if it was worth living this life.
ReplyDeleteI agree. By tellling us about louis it gives us some insight on King himself. Louis must of affected King greatly for him to bbe put in his book.
DeleteA saving story is just a story you can tell to anyone. It doesn't matter who. Family,friends, or complete strangers. Theses stories have affects on people. It can make them understand why they were put in this world or why they have that job. On other people they can just sit there and listen and not get what you are talking about.
ReplyDeleteGood job i agree.
DeleteWhat is a "saving story"? Describe what King means by this phrase as fully as possible.
ReplyDeleteAs most people all ready stated a saving story can make a difference with some one, change there whole aspects of life. Or it can cause them to yawn and fall asleep. Think for what if a story told to say a young Adolf Hitler changed his opinion of not only about Jews but life. Just a strange thought sorry. Morals are inter twined with the stores we have grown up with.
Saving can also be making, so a saving story could be making someones day. To make something you have to spend a little. Spending time perfecting how you talk or how you look. All to make your story have the best impact as possible. King leaves the door open to you on how or if you want to tell or hear :saving stores:, to any one at all.
I agree Mike. I think saving stories can be a variety of things, but the point you made was on point.
DeleteThe saving story is a story that makes you look at a brighter side in humanity. King is an Optimistic pessimist and all of the saving stories he told show it. The three stories he told were a story of going to Canada with his son, a story of his short basketball career, and a story of the old man and his garden. King is bringing his son to Canada and they get stuck under a concrete bridge while it is hailing out.The first story shows his son doing this, he says his son isn’t one to put sugar on sorrow and he tells his dad “just so we keep it straight, Dad, this was your idea.”. The son was showing alittle bit of optimism in a situation that should be pessimistic.
ReplyDeleteThe second story is about when king joined a basketball team. He told the people who asked him that he was terrible but he decided to play because he was lonely. His first game he scored 6 points and nobody could get passed him and his second game was even better. In one of his games though someone knocked him over and freaked out and made sure the metal plate in his head hadn’t popped out of place, this was the end of kings basketball career really. Kings team mates told the other teams that he had a plate in his head and if he got hit hard enough and he would snap and go on a rampage. That sounds pessimistic but for king it was an awesome experience until they figured it out.
The third story was the man with the tomatoes. This is the clearest of the saving stories in the book. King is talking about his hail storm experience with an older man. The old man starts to talk about how his tomatoes were smashed in a hail storm and the natural response is to feel sympathetic so that’s what king did. The old man however said it was fine because he liked ketchup. A pessimistic action happened and the old man looked at it optimistically.
(#1) the title had come from the book “porcupines and China Dolls”. King talks about the two characters in the book James and jake who had returned from a residential school. the story is about the boy’s past that leads up to how they got back.King said that the girls were scrubbed and powdered making them look like doll’s and boys were scrubbed and shaven to made to look like porcupines and they were roomed with children so it sounded like a million porcupine’s crying in the dark.
ReplyDelete#4
ReplyDeleteKing tells about his friend Louis because they shared many of the same experiences growing up as kids. They knew what it felt like to be in each other’s shoes. They would do many things together like tell stories and go fly-fishing. They were close almost like brothers
King also wants to share the final words of his friend. He talks about how he accomplishes a lot in his life. But eventually he just snaps from the lack of money and the government weighing him down.
I think everyone who replied to this promt said the same thing.
Delete#1
ReplyDelete"Porcupines and China Dolls", by Robert Alexie, is the base for King's name of the chapter. In said story, the boys are made to look like porcupines, scrubbed and sheared. The school was filled with children, who, at night, cried relentlessly. It's more than the obvious, though. The children are forced to conform with no choices and no option to leave toe reform school. Native Americans were in the same boat, or at least those who wanted to be recognized for who, not only what, they are. King is one such person. People, in general, like the children, are pressured to conform in order to be part of society. They don't have a way out, so they are left to emote with no expectations of a positive result. People are crying out, each for something different, an individual desire or need, but overall people all want one general thing. They want themselves, and the freedom to be.
In "Porcupines and China Dolls" the boys, James Nathan and Jake Noland, had to order relationships, memories, and possibilities to make sense of their life to come and, at the same time, an attempt to make a future for themselves. People must also take such steps in order to break free. Once this is done, they can see more clearly, they can see the world for what it is, good and evil. Life is a "relentless cycle of attempts and failures as characters try to put their lives in order". This is, in my opinion, a great definition of life itself.
I don't feel as if I delved deep enough into this chapter, so if anyone else has more input I would really love to hear it.
#1
ReplyDelete"A Million Procuepines Crying in the Dark" Comes from the book "Porcuepines and China Dolls". The chapters title referes to the sound of the children from the book crying at night. In the book, Kids at a residential school were scrubbed down to look different then they really were. And everynight their crying sounded like "A million procuepines". Hence were the idea for this hapter title came form.
(#4) A "saving story" is a story that you can tell yourself, friends and even strangers. It's a story that you will tell more than once because it's interesting. It's kind of a regular story, people tell the same stories, and different stories all the time and they tell them more than once.
ReplyDelete#2)
ReplyDeleteKing writes about the tragic loss of his friend as a memory and a lesson. He talks about how clocse him and Louis were, and about the great person Louis was.
He went on to share about a job Louis had gotten and written about. It had to do with a job he had gotten, but how the goverment basically took advantage of it. He got good pay,but then the camp he had to stay at,would charge his camp fees, tranportation,and food, and at the end of it all, they had figured out that they worked much more then what they had earned.
After a amost riot happened, the next day everyone was gone,leaving all these workers with very little money, and no rides for the long journeys ahead.
King thinks that his friend, Louis, was thinking back on this story in the airport garahe where he committed suicide. I believe King told this story so that he could give an understanding of the sort of racism labor, and how the government can really take advantage of peopo, and sometimes push them to there end limits.
I'm responding to the second question about Kings friend Louis Owen. I believe the reason why King tells this tragic story is because it shows how america got so populated and how hard it was to work in early America.
ReplyDeleteIt shows that life was not easy for young men at some point and not nearly far for any one working in America at these times.
#2. Why does King tell the tragic story of his good friend Louis Owens?
ReplyDeleteKing tells the tragic story of his very close friend Louis, and how when he was young, he was pushed into working at a camp, where people of different race were talked into working in the fields every day all day. They of course thought that this was better than nothing, they were then brought back inside only to be locked up and forced to sleep on old beds and eat inedible food. Basically treated like slaved. All expenses, they were unfairly charged for. In the end, they just ended up going broke, because they spent more than they were given. This "work" did not last long, only about 3 weeks. Eventually they all escaped after a riot had broke out outside, resulting in a long walk home.
I think King told this story, because he wanted people to think differently of native stories, or any story for that matter. When he explained Owens tragic end, he wondered if he perhaps was thinking about how the government had wrongly treated him, or about his worker friends and their long walk home. In the end, King said "Maybe if porcupines and china dolls had been written earlier, and more people had the novel and understood the story, Louis and the rest of the workers wouldn't have had to walk home that summer." and perhaps that could have resulted in a happier more pleasant end for this man. Also, in the end like all the rest of the chapters, he said "But don't say in the years to come that you would have lived your life differently if only you had heard this story. You've heard it now." I think this applied nicely to his stories, bringing them together because he said that maybe they would have lived their lives differently if only they had read them.
King tells the story about his friend Louis Owen because it was one of his closest friends that meant a lot to him and to show how hard it was for the lower hand race over the upper hand government. he wanted to show us the racial shadow zones that really have been created for everyone in there own ways. its easy in a way really for king to tell the story to us about Louis because like he said they had a lot in common and shared a lot like there fears he talks about. They shared a background that at the time they had a hard time with back to the racism point of being judged a lot.Its not easy telling the tragic story but when king can get a point across by telling it there's more to the story a lot more meaning to it that there is to understand.
ReplyDeleteI think King tells the story of his friend Lois Owens to show how different races of people were treated by white people. He tells this story to show how blacks and mexican people were mistreated in the fields. The workers were given horrible food not very good sleeping spots and were charged for about everything. The workers instead of makeing money were getting more in debt.
ReplyDeleteI did not see how it demostrates the different races and how people were treated but I think it is a valid point.
Delete#4
ReplyDeleteA saving story is one that is told in hopes of changing somebodies life. It doesn't have to be a very good story with a certain plot or a certain theme. It could be any story really. When King is talking about his relationship with Louis Owens he describes themselves as being hopeful pessimist, who wrote in hopes of changing the world but knew deep down inside that it wouldn't. There are many saving stories throughout this chapter, like the old man who had all his tomatoes destroyed but was able to look at the brighter side of things. Maybe a pessimist had heard of this story and decided to be an optimist. Or vice versa, maybe an optimist read this story and really hated ketchup so he decided to become a negative Nancy. Saving stories don't always have to change somebodies life in the way you want it too. Maybe by reading the ketchup story and by becoming a pessimist, that so or so person later down the timeline, accidently drops his car keys and by habit bends over to pick them up, but dodges a bullet that would have killed him had he have not read that story. Doesn't matter if it wasn't an awe inspiring tale. Changed his life didn't it? What about the story of Louis Owens? Maybe somebody who was going to commit suicide read his memoir and then decided that life was too precious to lose on your first try. Or maybe somebody read the story about Narcisse Blood and simply decided to use his ploy as a good way to cheat at basketball? Doesn't matter if that isn't a life saving revelation. Changed somebodies Basket ball strategy now didn't it? One could argue that the entire book the Truth about Stories is just one large saving story. At the end of every chapter King will always say "But don't say in the years to come that you would have lived your life differently if only you had heard this story. You've heard it now." Think about it. Did this book change the way you think about many social political problems?
#2
ReplyDeleteKing tells the story about his good friend Louis Owens because he always got treated differently because of his race. They went through a lot of the same problems together and had a lot in common. The Native Americans and the Mexicans were treated very badly and worked very hard, for very little. They got charged for rides, foods and didn't have good places to sleep.
Why does King tell the tragic story of his good friend Louis Owens?
ReplyDeleteI believe King was trying to demonstrate the power of emotion in stories wheather they're sad, happy, or exciting. Owens also had the same ideas as King and shared the same enthusiasm for stories as King did.
Chapter 4 Q1: It comes from Robert Alexie's novel "Porcupines and China Dolls". It means that the girls in the book were powdered up to make them look like china dolls, and the boys were scrubbed and sheared to look like porcupines. And each night when the children cried in their beds, it sounded "like a million porcupines crying in the night."
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ReplyDelete